Umami Podcast

Michela Tartaglia April 2024
Elise
0:00:00
You're listening to the Umami podcast, conversations with producers, purveyors, and scholars exploring food choices we make as a culture. I'm Elise Ballard, and I'm here with my friend and co-host, Chris Pfeifle. Thanks for being here. Michela Tartaglia is chef-owner of Pasta Casalinga, a restaurant in the Pike Place Market where you can experience handmade pasta served with seasonal flavors from the farmers, fishers and foragers of the Pacific Northwest. On this episode of the Umami Podcast, we get a lesson on the tradition of pasta,
Elise
0:00:51
as well as the tradition of the Pike Place Market. Markets like these should be celebrated, and our conversation with Michela illustrates why the further you delve into them, the more flavor you find. Let's listen to her story. But first, tell us about what you had for breakfast this morning.
Michela
0:01:18
I don't have breakfast. I just have coffee and a little milk. I don't eat breakfast.
Elise
0:01:24
That sounds pretty Italian. Am I right about that?
0:01:26
I know.
0:01:27
I know.
Michela
0:01:28
I'm one of those.
Michela
0:01:29
Sorry.
Michela
0:01:30
I know it's insane to think that some people do that, but I'm one of those.
Elise
0:01:36
I don't know. I don't think it's that insane. It doesn't make sense to me. It seems like it's working for you.
Michela
0:01:42
Hi, Elise. How are you?
Michela
0:01:44
Good. How are you? You know, I want to, I couldn't find your email and then I type your name. And an email from 2017 came out. You know, we exchange emails briefly.
Elise
0:01:59
I don't remember what it was about.
Michela
0:02:02
It was this company called Niki.
Elise
0:02:05
Oh, that's before I knew my, yes, right. That's before I knew my, my business name that I have now, which is Umami.
Michela
0:02:13
Oh, so it was, okay. And someone had introduced us, but this was not with, actually, that's so funny what you just said, because that, well, that was not with Pasta Casalinga. That was with Cucina Casalinga, that was my cooking
Michela
0:02:30
school.
Elise
0:02:31
Oh, wow, right.
Michela
0:02:32
Yeah, and I think I don't even, I mean, I think the website is still on Cucina Casalinga. I'm always very timid to go and look sometimes in the past, the past life. But anyway, we were exchanging emails through Cucina Casalinga. So a different, another stage.
Elise
0:02:51
Wow.
Michela
0:02:52
For you with your company, the other name of the company. So pretty interesting.
Elise
0:02:57
That is, I need to go back and look at that too. I would love to, you know, just I know that I've known of you for a long time.
Michela
0:03:04
Wow.
Elise
0:03:05
So that makes a lot of sense. Let me stop and introduce you to Chris. Chris Pfeifle is is my co-host here.
Chris
0:03:14
Hi, Michela. How are you doing today?
Michela
0:03:16
Hi, Chris. I'm very well.
Michela
0:03:18
How are you?
Chris
0:03:19
I'm doing well. I was able to listen to everything you were talking about.
Michela
0:03:23
Oh, okay. Good.
Michela
0:03:25
Well, I'm so happy to be here.
Michela
0:03:27
Thank you for co-hosting tonight.
Elise
0:03:29
I want to talk to you about you, first of all, about your book, about what pasta is and let's talk about where it comes from and the difference between fresh and dried and the history and all of that and a little bit about what it's like to own a business in the Pike Place Market.
Michela
0:03:50
OK, all sounds some I think I can be pretty prepared or fairly prepared about the subject. So yeah, let's do it. Great, great.
Elise
0:04:02
Well, start by telling us about Pasta Casalinga and how you got to that place, this place.
Michela
0:04:09
Yes, so Pasta Casalinga, right in Pike Place Market. I was renting this common space at the atrium in the same building where Pasta Casalinga is right now. And I was just doing cooking classes, events, and it was a lot of fun for me. I met a lot of people, a lot of Seattle connections, and I really liked it. The classes were mainly about how to make pasta, so fresh pasta, and all the pasta spectrum from gnocchi to ravioli, spaghetti alla chitarra, and so on. And I always thought that I kind of wanted to make this not an occasional gig, as I was doing, but back then I was doing many other jobs, but that's a different chapter. I had this dream to have a little joint where I was serving pasta for lunch in a daily schedule.
Michela
0:05:35
I looked and looked and looked and tried and tried and tried. And I put together a business plan in a Pike Place Market in 2015. The first one I got rejected. Fine. Cried a little bit. And, and then I put the second one later on and I got accepted. And that was fantastic. And I think sometimes timing is everything and that was the one.
Michela
0:06:09
I think that when I submitted the first proposal, probably was not the right time also for me. And when I did the second time, I got approved by the Pike Place Market, the PDA, the city of Seattle because you know that getting a spot in Pike Place Market, it's kind of more difficult than winning the lottery. It's pretty tricky out there. So yeah, that's what happened.
Chris
0:06:41
What was the direction that led you into wanting to be part of the Pike Place Market?
Michela
0:06:46
Well, back in the time I was living in downtown Seattle, actually, I started to build the dealer hotel and I was working in Pike Place Market, you know, with doing a cucina casalinga, doing my classes. My oldest daughter was going to that five place Market preschool and childcare. I was a Market girl by default, geographically, because I was living there, I was part of that, I was volunteering, I was just, it was my second home. So it was pretty organic for me to desire something like that in Pike Place Market and not at the Capitol Hill.
Michela
0:07:32
I was just very naturally inclined to look for a spot in Pike Place Market.
Elise
0:07:44
That's wonderful. And so the process you went through to open Pasta Casalinga, the restaurant as it is, and it's Casalinga, right? Yes. Casalinga was, as you described, it was going before the Pike Place Market Board and then going before the City of Seattle?
Michela
0:08:07
Yeah, I mean, the PDA, which is the Preservation and Development Authority, that basically the governance of the Pike Place Market is the one that makes sure that whoever gets a spot, so the new tenants are following certain criteria and there are many, many components and the PDA, they work together to guarantee that there is an equal opportunity for the new tenant in Pike Place Market because obviously it's a place that many people would love to be part of. So I think I would put probably equally tricky, but yeah, it worked out.
Elise
0:09:20
Okay, equally challenging. Oh, that's funny. Well, let's come back to the conversations about like the business side of Pike Place Market and switch a little bit to your restaurant, Pasta Casalinga, and what it represents, what it focuses on.
Michela
0:09:40
Pasta Casalinga is number one a business. It's something that I'm proud of, but it's definitely, I want to be very frank, it's not like the dream of my life. I didn't grow up thinking that I was going to have a pasta shop. It's something that at one point of my life, I decided that it would have been very interesting to combine several of my passions. One is cooking, one is pasta, and one is being connected with the community, which is Pike Place Market, and to make something out of it.
Michela
0:10:27
And that's how Pasa Casalinga was born. So for me, I take Pasta Casalinga very seriously. I consider it my place that I'm very devoted to. And I really, it's very important for me that whoever is part of it, feels the same. And it's a very hard work because having a little restaurant is not writing poetry. I know this is not sweet for all the people who buy poetry, but it's tough. It's tough. I worked all day today today cooking and I just go back home. I was like, ah, this is, you know, every time I say, this is tough.
Michela
0:11:20
It's fun, but it's hard. But the best part of it is that every single day, although there is a protocol, although there is some sort of routine, it's different. And every day when you have a small business and you're lucky enough to be in charge, you can have the freedom to make the little adjustments here and there that facilitate your life and the life of the people that are working with you. There is something that doesn't work in a bigger corporation, right? So that's what is Pasta Casalinga for me. It's really a luxury to be able to offer that, to do that, obviously showcasing the best ingredients that we can think combined with pasta. That's our staple.
Michela
0:12:31
I don't know if I answered your question, but yeah, that's Pasta Casalinga for me.
Chris
0:12:42
Sure. How has the Pacific Northwest influenced the cuisine that you serve at your restaurant and the frequency and seasonality that you introduce to your cuisine?
Michela
0:12:55
Yes, and that's the big fun of it. I really dislike routine. I was like this also as a child, a person that is very driven by, I don't want to say changes, but new things. I get very excited about it. So when I came to Seattle 18 years ago, I was exposed to a big list of new ingredients or something similar or we have in Italy, but a little bit different. And I dug into that in cooking them and combining them with pasta. So Pasta Casalinga, it's the summary of this combination of the Pacific Northwest ingredients and my background of Italian pasta.
Michela
0:14:00
And it's been a fun journey and every time is different because ingredients also with the climate they change. The seasonality is strict but not that strict because right now we have fiddleheads, which really represents the Pacific Northwest in its high top because that's what we have. In the last past few years, they used to last a couple of weeks, and now the seasonality is a little bit longer, because the climate is changing.
Elise
0:14:33
Oh, that's interesting.
Michela
0:14:34
But we don't have them in Italy. They don't exist. Oh. My mom, who is visiting from Italy, she just had that pasta dish, and she blowed her mind. She said, this is fantastic. I can't even tell what it is. So you served... It's like an asparagus, but it's not an asparagus.
Michela
0:14:52
So I show her. Also, she didn't clearly read my book because the recipe is in the book. But yeah, like how fantastic that you can really play with what is in season, what is around. And also, for me, an opportunity to learn about something that I was not exposed to.
Elise
0:15:18
There are so many directions we can take this conversation and I hope that we get to explore all of them, but I'm going to start with this one, which is what brought you here 18 years ago? What made you want to come to the Pacific Northwest?
Michela
0:15:30
Okay, so there is the official, there is this question, Elise, is a pretty common question that I've been asked. There is a short tiny version and there's a long version. And then there is the answer they always say, because many people, so when I go to the bank sometimes, and people say, where are you from? I'm from Italy. Oh, what brought you here? I was like, OK, no.
Michela
0:15:59
And I always answer, we will need a couple of bottles of wine to tell the whole story. So it's not going to happen tonight, the whole story, but in a nutshell, after university, I studied philosophy at the University of Bologna in Italy, and I traveled for three months. It was my first big trip by myself in Asia. And during these three months, I realized that my English, that I studied a little bit, was pretty elementary. And I am very much a people person.
Michela
0:16:48
I love to get to know people and in this I really wanted to talk and that's about religion, about life, I felt like to be a little child. So when I went back to Italy I changed completely my plan, my initial plan was the one to pursue a PhD in my field and I decided to put that project on hold in order to improve my English. This was when I was pretty much younger, 18 years ago. And I was working during college to this fantastic wine bar called Godot. Many of the clients, for some reason, many of them would keep talking, I was sharing this project of mine, I said I need to improve my English, I think I want to go to the United States, but I don't know where, I've never been.
Michela
0:17:44
And several of them, they were like, Michela, you will be perfect for Seattle. But where is Seattle? I mean, I knew Seattle, Nirvana, music, but no, you will be so perfect for Seattle. And so I got very curious and I look in the map, I made some research and it looked sweet to me. And I moved.
Chris
0:18:06
It's a good spot.
Michela
0:18:07
And I moved to a place in a country that I've never been before. So completely like that.
Elise
0:18:16
Straight to the Diller?
Chris
0:18:21
Was that, was the Diller your landing spot or did you have a, did you go into a few neighborhoods before you set up shop at the feet of the Pike Place Market?
Michela
0:18:30
No, I lived my first year, so I came here as a student, right? I came here the first year as a student. I was living in the lovely neighborhood of Ravenna. And then, you know, it was supposed to be one year, I was supposed to go back home to pursue my PhD. And then, you know, we will need to open the second bottle of wine, yeah, life took a different route.
Elise
0:19:00
That's great.
Chris
0:19:01
So, did the Pacific Northwest live up to the ideal situation that your friends and traveling companions were touting?
Michela
0:19:14
Absolutely not. It was a disaster. My friends completely... They lied, they lied to you. They, well, it's not that they lied, it all came the summer. Some was there, for some of them was a honeymoon trip, so they were doing the classic Seattle and then going to Alaska and so on. They all came in the summer, so obviously it was fantastic. Yeah, that's the best time. I arrived in November 2006. So I live to that, so that's it. You understand everything. So no, November 2005.
Michela
0:20:02
So it was very hard. I didn't understand at the beginning because I've read, it's raining, and I lived in London for a few months when I was younger and I remember the rain, but I didn't understand the whole thing about the weather. So for me, it was like, I really, it was very hard at the beginning. But then when you stop crying and embrace what you have, because when you come from Italy, it's, Italy is a very sweet country in the, right in the middle of the Mediterranean. Like, we are really used to just different, different climates. So I think it hurts to us more than it will hurt to someone coming from the UK, right? So it was just pretty tricky. But then I stopped being the crying baby and forget about all of the weather.
Michela
0:21:00
I think shortly after this I completely fell in love with Seattle and the Pacific Northwest in general.
Chris
0:21:13
Was food a gateway to you falling in love with the area? Was that or was it the landscape and then the bounty that the landscape has?
Michela
0:21:22
Yeah, the combination of those. I was fortunate enough to meet up, I mean to make friends with these fantastic human human beings who are going fishing and climbing and foraging and all of this. So all of these components that you just mentioned came together and how can you not fall in love with those? It's just amazing. Sometimes I wake up in the morning and say, we really live here. It's just fantastic.
Michela
0:22:05
And that's why many people that even were not born and raised in Seattle, but they've been living here for a while, have such a hard time to move because you can truly fall in love to this place.
Elise
0:22:20
Yeah, yeah. That's very well said. Did you have climbing and fishing and foraging when you were in Italy?
Michela
0:22:30
Not really. No, no. I come from a background of farmers. So both sides, my mom and my dad, so inland countryside.
Elise
0:22:45
You grew up in the north or?
Michela
0:22:47
I grew up north. Yeah, I grew up in, by Torino, Torino, in Piedmont region. I grew up there,
Michela
0:22:48
But both mom and dad from the south, the inland of Naples.
Elise
0:22:36
Did I read that you, you used to spend your summers in somewhere near Naples?
Michela
0:23:38
Yeah, every summer of my life until I moved to Seattle. And I still, every summer when I go back home, I go to home to Torino and we have a farm still in the south, a big farm where it's our summer house where my mom and her sisters reunite, okay, you got it. And we spend time there and my kids love the place and it's just, landscape is olive trees, corn. My grandparents used to also have cultivation of tobacco that we don't have anymore. So it's very green, but also some yellow, and it's a pretty special place.
Michela
0:24:13
So no, no foraging, no fishing, no salmon, definitely.
Chris
0:24:18
But pasta, for sure. Can you talk about maybe the differences between a northern and a southern style pasta and how you make it?
Michela
0:24:28
Yeah, absolutely. We say northern and southern is a big, it's a pretty approximative division, but we can talk about that because if you want to be more accurate, each region, which is 20 regions in Italy, would be like our state in the US, really has their own culture of pasta. It's very diverse, one to the other one. In general, in the north of Italy, the pasta is more a pasta made with eggs and more elaborate. In the specific Piedmont, the region where I grew up, which is probably one of the queen region of pasta. Pasta is pretty elaborate in the dough and in the filling and in the sauce in general. If you think about tallarin or ravioli al plin, all of those, there are pretty, lots of technique, lots of components, pretty expensive if you
Michela
0:26:00
you think about a farmer making this kind of pasta. Just because the setup of the region was definitely wealthier, more access to all of these ingredients and so on.
Michela
0:26:19
In the south, and when I talk about south, let's say starting in Rome, down south, the pasta, it's simpler and really I'm talking about big, like breaking it down, I hope none of the historians is listening to me because I'm not specifying it out.
Chris
0:26:44
I'm asking for a basic breakdown for sure. And so far this is very illuminating.
Michela
0:26:50
Well, you know, the south, so from Rome south, a pasta is mainly made out of a different variety of wheat. Here we know semolina and water. The semolina, it's a variety of wheat that just grows down south, doesn't grow in Piedmont. I don't think it doesn't grow in Veneto, doesn't grow in any of this. So it is geographical also.
0:27:23
Yeah, yeah, climate influenced.
0:27:25
Yeah, sure.
Michela
0:27:26
And it's just a wheat, very strong in the protein, very strong in gluten, so doesn't require adding any egg in it because the combo, the mixture of it, it's pretty strong, that you can make a very nice dough.
Elise
0:27:47
That it doesn't dissolve in water. Exactly.
Elise
0:27:48
So your pasta is extruded. You have dyes that cut a casarecce or whatever the different types of pasta are. And yeah, what are those types?
Michela
0:28:03
Yeah, I mean, it would be lovely to make the pasta by hand for our guests, but it would be pretty much impossible because luckily we have high volume and we are a tiny place. So we do, this is still handcraft because we need to, many of these shapes have to be manually cut. Some are cut by a cutter, others like paccari, right now we have paccari in the pasta, it's not cut, but you need to break it. So we make all of this pasta with the extruders, which are this gorgeous machine made in Italy.
Elise
0:28:59
They are. I've seen them. They're wonderful. They're in your cafe. I love sitting next to them.
Michela
0:29:02
Yeah, they're pretty mesmerizing also to see how it's crazy because still our days, every time that especially certain shape, the way they come out, if you look at them, kind of hypnotic power. Anyway, so the extruder can be different kind. a pretty rough, rough consistency, the pasta. So the pasta is just like nice bite.

Michela
0:29:48

Elise
0:29:50
So bronze dyes, I've heard of, you know, bronze dye cut pasta and like gragnano, I don't know, things like that. And I didn't know why bronze. What is that?
Michela
0:30:04
It's just a way of, how can I say? I'm sure that people who are drawing, they are two different categories, you know, when they use pencils. I'm sure that one use this kind of pencil and the other category of people, they like the other kind of pencil. They have a different kind of top. So one is softer, the other one is sharper.
Elise
0:30:29
Got it. Okay.
Michela
0:30:30
So, you know, similar ideas of the way the pasta, the bronze, and the other one is acciaio, which in English is, now I have a brain fog for the English, acciaio would be the steel. Right. Is that right? So they are just different ways of making both good products, but different. If you have a pasta, bronze cut is going to be tougher. And if you have a pasta, steel cut is going to be smoother, probably more elegant in the taste, softer. Yeah, you like blond, you like blond man, you like brunette. Everybody has different taste.
Chris
0:31:25
I have a question about that. Whereas the tool will leave a signature on the product, on the pasta itself, the shape itself. What does that allow? Is it just for a delivery system, a geometric shape, other than being mesmerizing when it's coming out of the cutter to carry whatever sauce that you put with it? Or does that also have a different significance?
Elise
0:31:53
Yes, I want to just add on to that. It makes me wonder, do you choose the shape of pasta based on the sauce that you're going to...
Michela
0:32:07
Yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, always. I speak a little bit about that in the cookbook in the beginning. that certain shapes, they simply go better with certain sauces. So if you have a ragu, if you have a wild boar ragu, you want to have like a tortiglioni rigati or pappardelle. They just love each other. They are meant to be together. Although personal preferences are important.
Michela
0:32:57
So some people don't like certain things, like my brother doesn't like spaghetti, I don't know what's wrong with him, I don't like him, but I cannot do spaghetti, and sometimes with certain sauces they love spaghetti because he doesn't like it and that's still okay. But to make more confusion in this, it's so usually it's okay. It's pretty flexible, this universe of hundreds of hundreds of hundreds pasta shapes. I think in Italy we have, they estimate six, seven hundred--something like that--officially. But every day they need something new, right? But certain things are completely unacceptable. Like, no. At least in Italy, and of course, I don't accept them too because I just, my brain was not used to and my mouth is the same. For example, tagliolini, so like a very thin pasta, like angel hair, something like that, with ragù.
Michela
0:34:08
It's just weird, even saying that. So I'm like, no. Angel hair tagliolini with something very... Texturally, just......salt and nutmeg and parmigiano, something more delicate. I don't know if it makes sense, all of this pretty approximate explanation, but yeah, that's the universe of pasta shapes.
Chris
0:34:34
It makes sense. It absolutely makes sense. And it's kind of a mystery that I've been wondering about my whole life. And also a bunch of rules that I would like to have like an angel hair you know be like a cloud just in and other times it is absolutely soft down with a ragu sauce and almost like matted hair at that point
Michela
0:35:04
Exactly exactly. So there is some sort of logic in all of this. I just need to be, and like everything, I think that sometimes, especially coming from Italy, people are very strict with food and rules. And I, for many, I agree, but for others, everybody has to be a little bit relaxed. So.
Elise
0:35:43
Doesn't it, going back to the angel hair thing, and the, you know, burying it in a bolognese or a ragu or something like that. Texturally doesn't work, but also isn't it a lot about the quality of the pasta?
Michela
0:35:50
Of course. Of course. You can have the best sauce that you put all your love and you slow cooked for many hours using the best piece of meat that you had or the best seafood or again the best vegetables or foraged mushroom and combine with the poor quality pasta, pasta that breaks, pasta that has a very low quality, made with low quality flour, has a very long shelf life, but sometimes maybe it's too long. Yeah, completely can ruin your dish. So and vice versa, you can have a fantastic pasta, but with low quality or extra virgin olive oil, your dish will be completely ruined.
Michela
0:36:57
Or like a corked wine, that you just, that you splash a little bit your mussels, your penn cove mussel, that someone went to the island to get.
Chris
0:37:06
They are so good.
Michela
0:37:07
The only one you had, and you say, okay, let's do a splash a little bit of this, I know it's not fantastic. Your pasta dish is, completely ruined. Yeah.
Elise
0:37:18
Well, so let me mention right now, too, that your pasta is sold in some shops around Seattle. Talk to us about how you cook that pasta.
Michela
0:37:29
That's correct. Yeah. during the pandemic, while we wanted to try to employ as much as people that we could. And the restaurant was pretty much closed. And because pasta doesn't carry on very easily when it's cooked, like pizza, it doesn't travel well. So I thought, why? We really have a fantastic product.
Michela
0:38:04
I mean, I'm proud of our pasta. Why don't we have, you know, why don't we have this, this thing going somewhere else? Some, you know, places that are a little bit far from us. And I was, the stars aligned pretty nicely. And Metropolitan Market was interested in that. And we started to team up and our days, our pasta is sold from Kirkland to Tacoma, Gig Harbor, and Sammamish and so on. So I love that, I love that people that are not living in the city, in the King County,
Michela
0:38:55
city of Seattle, they can have access to that. But what I love the most is when someone coming like from Tacoma to Pasta Casalinga and they had no clue that we are a restaurant, but they were buying the pasta.
Elise
0:39:09
Oh yeah.
Michela
0:39:10
It's like, oh my God, the logo is the same. So we actually we eat your pasta, this is great. I love that. I love this amplifying effect that maybe they ended up there for a reason. Maybe they kind of, they didn't even know that they subconsciously, they knew. I don't know. So I love, I love these things. So it's been a fun journey about the wholesale. Not a lot of money, I have to be frank. You need to have a very, very big high volume to... But there's a little bit and the marketing part is incredibly powerful. And that's enough for me.
Elise
0:39:59
Oh, that makes sense. It's helped me get to know your pasta. I buy it at the grocery store and I go to your restaurant about once a week. And I, when I have it to cook, I feel like I know it a little bit more intimately and I get to see what you do with it. But I want you to talk to us about how do you cook your pasta? What is the, you know, there are instructions on the package, but let's talk about it. First of all, it's refrigerated.
Elise
0:40:30
It's not fresh pasta. It's not egg pasta. It's drier than that, but it's refrigerated and it's soft.
Michela
0:40:38
It is fresh pasta. I mean, even if it's not egg pasta, it's still fresh. And when we say fresh and dry, it simply means that it is... So anytime it's refrigerated, it's fresh.
Elise
0:40:52
Yes, that makes sense. Okay. And so how do you... First of all, do you always go the water route? And if so, how much do you salt your water?
Michela
0:41:04
Yeah, so it's simple, but also pretty important. Number one, you always cook your pasta in plenty, in plenty. So even if I cook it for me and my two daughters, I use that, I'm not using the pot for 12 people obviously, but I'm using like a decent pot. Because the pasta has to cook and has to kind of dance in the water, spin. You don't want to make oatmeal and cook the pasta in the small little tiny pot. No, no, let's not do that. All right.
Michela
0:41:42
So, plenty of hot, salted boiling water. So, the water has to go ahead and has to be salted. I salt, I use marine salt, coarse salt for the pasta always. When do you salt the water? If you salted before, some people like to salt it before so they don't forget. The water usually takes a little bit longer to boil. Usually I salt right when it's already almost boiling, I put a little bit of salt in it. Doesn't matter. It has to be salted, it has to be lots of water, it has to be boiling, super important, and then you cook your pasta according to instructions or if it's our pasta, it takes very few minutes.
Michela
0:42:36
And if it says three to four minutes, but you need to saute the pasta with your sauce, you always need to pull it out a little bit, like at least a minute before, because when you saute in a pan with the sauce, the pasta will keep on cooking with the heat, right? So you need to make a little bit all the math. But luckily enough, the pasta, our pasta is pretty solid. And so even if you're like one or two minutes ahead, it's still delicious. But having a pasta al dente is super important because it's more digestible, it's good for you, it's more delicious, it's a nice bite. So I cook the pasta, I drain the pasta, and then I mix with whatever I have.
Michela
0:43:26
I always add a little bit of the water, the boiling water, yeah, and that water is very And that adds some natural creaminess to whatever you are making. It can be a pomodoro, it can be a pesto, it can be... And that's it. And then you serve, and you need to eat right away. We say in Italian, la pasta si aspetta, ma non si fa aspettare, you wait for the pasta, but the pasta doesn't wait for you.
Elise
0:44:18
Ah, yes, that's wonderful.
Michela
0:44:04
Which means when your pasta arrives, focus. And eat your pasta, don't get distracted, because I get to look warm and it's.
Elise
0:44:18
Yeah, now tell us a little bit about, okay, so that's, we've talked about a little bit about your pasta. Now, talk to us a little bit about how you decide what you're going to serve every day. We started off talking about fiddlehead ferns because that's what's in season right now in April. So, I know that has a lot to do with it. I also have observed that you have a land or a garden, a land and a sea variety that you serve every day. So, tell us a little bit about that.
Elise
0:44:42
Yeah, absolutely. It's super fun, very challenging to change a menu every two or three weeks,
Michela
0:44:43
especially in a tiny spot like Pasta Casalinga, but it's essential in what we do. It's super boring to cook the same thing over and over. It's like to listen to the same music, same song every day. No. So it's not compromisable to change the menu. Bring excitement, people like it in the kitchen, all the cooks, all the line cooks, everybody's pumped, and myself, obviously. I make decisions based on many things. Many things, obviously seasonality, what's going on right now. And now it's spring, so it's a crazy time of the year, there's so much going on.
Michela
0:45:37
So I look in all the newsletters, on the mail list of all my distributors, the farmers, the fishermen, what they got. I look at pricing, so if the asparagus are at the very beginning of the season, pretty pricey, no, we don't need to do that because we price up pretty democratically our pasta, so we can wait a couple of weeks, it's fine. I like to make deals. So if I know that the season is going to be short or is about to end for some sort of ingredients, maybe some sort of mushrooms, I like to guarantee from that forage person
Michela
0:46:30
that they're going to be mine. That's exciting. feedback when clients are like, oh, can you please bring me back this and this? I was like, okay.
Michela
0:46:45
And maybe two of them asked for that. I was like, yeah, why not? That would be fun to make some people happy. And then last but not the least, my team, they always taste new recipes. They love to bring in their ideas. It doesn't happen all the time. So it's a collaborative thing. But when it does, it's super fun and I like to showcase their recipes.
Michela
0:47:21
If they are approved, tested, have food costs worked out, and so yeah, all of those.
Elise
0:47:41
That's great. You have, it seems like I've seen like three people behind your counter and you probably have others as well. But how does that collaboration, how does that dance, that choreography happen when you're, you know, day of when you're serving your pasta?
Michela
0:47:59
Pretty good. I've been pretty fortunate, I have to say. Everybody, Posta Casalinga is such a tiny, tiny place that whoever decides to be part of the team or wants to be part of the team is in a place where, although we all have our roles, has to be able to do pretty much everything. So I have to say that, and I'm not saying this because it sounds nice, but I think everybody works in a pretty good harmony and delivers good dishes in our manner, in the way that we can, because we're not an elegant place. I think also good service and I'm pretty proud.
Elise
0:49:02
You say not an elegant place, but it's inside the Pike Place Market. It's tucked in there. It's in an atrium. It's sort of above. It has, you serve everything in ceramic plates, ceramic bowls. You have proper forks and knives. You have wonderful wine selections. It's actually quite elegant. I disagree with you.
Michela
0:49:32
Thank you. Well, you know, at the beginning when we opened, it was, there was a second conversation of, ah, what should we use? And this is like, number one, I need to have a real fork if I'm sitting down. If I have it to go, obviously not. But for those who are sitting down, it's very important. In Italian, we say that it changes the taste of your meal when you eat with a plastic fork,
Michela
0:49:57
which I think somehow it's true. And then wine, I love wine myself, so it's super fun to be able to share the wine that I love with our guests. So, thank you, I take the compliment.
Chris
0:50:15
Well, I imagine that if brass and steel would affect the texture and the delivery of pasta coming out of the extruder or your machinery, it would also affect what flavor is going into your machinery.
Elise
0:50:30
Oh my gosh, that's yes, that makes a lot of sense. Yeah, that's, I love that about it. I love how simple it is to at your place. There is a proper glass of wine, there's a proper fork, there's a proper ceramic bowl of pasta. There's a way to, you put those things away when you're done with it and it's very organized. It's just so simple and so clean and such a machine.
Michela
0:51:08
Oh, I'm flattered. Thank you so much.
Chris
0:51:10
Now, Michela, is there anything that you're growing on your own just for yourself? Like do you have a home garden or do you have any springtime projects that you're looking forward to this season?
Michela
0:51:21
Oh, you know, if the day will be more than 24 hours, that will definitely be on my book. But time is pretty, time can be tricky. I grow, I have about 80 olive trees in Italy. I have a little property in Piedmont and I go usually in the fall to harvest those and to make some olive oil. I don't know if that is considered something that...
Chris
0:51:56
Yeah, yeah, we're going to count that.
Michela
0:51:58
To answer your question, that...
Elise
0:52:00
Oh, that counts. That counts for sure. Oh my gosh, I was just in Piedmont. I'm I can't believe it. I want to know more about this. So you've got 80 olive trees.
Michela
0:52:11
It's fun. Yeah, it's nice. It's a land that my uncle had all his life and he was about to retire and my cousin were not interested in keeping it. So he wanted to keep in the I wasn't to get it, is a magical place in Roero, the area, the wine area. And so I purchased it a few years ago, but it's also has a little house in the land. And also is the place that my family spent a lot of sundays lots of weekends in the place. And vineyards, unfortunately, needs a lot of work, but we're about 200 plants of nebbiolo, but with nobody there, it's very tricky to keep up. more time in Italy, I will replant all the vineyards. But the olive trees are among the
Michela
0:53:19
strongest fruit trees, so they don't require much. They just require a pruning once a year. They would do, usually when we pick the olives, also we do the pruning. And let's see, this year we did about two tons, two tons of olives, something like this. It's a pretty good year. So yeah, and the olive oil stays in the house, doesn't go anywhere. I use it religiously, like literally.
Chris
0:53:54
Does any of that olive oil, does any of it show up in your cuisine that people can eat, or is that just strictly for you and your guests? It's just for me and my friends and my family.
Michela
0:54:07
It's not much and it's so much labor. Not now. So, yeah, it's fun. It's very rewarding and also a reminder of how hard is all the farming job because.
Elise
0:54:31
Absolutely. And I guess you have a little bit of a reminder of that in each plate that you serve at the Market. Let me shift for a second to your book. I want to talk to you a little bit about that. I know you have a signing coming up at Book Larder in April?
Michela
0:54:52
Yeah.
Elise
0:54:53
At the end of the month, is that right?
Michela
0:54:55
Yes, yes. For the Indy Day, the Independent Bookstores Day, that is happening that day, I think it's April 27th, Saturday, if I recall correctly.
Elise
0:55:08
That sounds right, April 27th.
Michela
0:55:09
The Passport And then everybody can collect the stamps through the month of April. Just go in to make some purchase in your local favorite bookstores. And then Book Larder, which are superstars, is part of that. And I've been invited to that event. So I will do some signing. And then I will also, I think I will give some pasta snacks.
Elise
0:55:41
Oh, that's a wonderful idea. Book Larder. I know it and I love it. I've I've been to several readings there. And we have a funny little connection with someone who I think you mentioned will be there on April 27th with you. Becky Selengut who I just went to see speak with Bethany Jean Clement last week. We tried to have her on our show.
Michela
0:56:04
Yeah, I wanted to go to that even so that I had a confident night But I was it looks fantastic. It was a good night.
Elise
0:56:16
It was a wonderful night. Becky is someone that we tried to get on our show before we I don't know I what happened It was all sorts of complications We tried twice and and kind of screwed it up and and it I as a result have been very shy around her I can't really even show my head, but we will eventually but anyway well I’ll be there.
Michela
0:56:39
You know we never met. I don't think we ever met in person That way now will but we are connected by so many people that we know. But I will remind her, I will tell her the podcast with you and then I will remind her that. And I will tell her that it was so fun and all the positive things. And then you email her the day after.
Elise
0:57:08
Okay, great. That sounds great.Yeah, and I'll be there on April 27th too.
Michela
0:57:14
Yeah, books, talking about the book, yeah, there is so many fun things. Maybe next week, an event at Delancey, the pizzeria, at Ballard, they're cooking three recipes of my cookbook. It's going to be a fun night. And so on, just like, just keep on doing that, keep promoting the book, but also having a good time. Why not?
Elise
0:57:44
Yeah, that's great. When did the book come out? When was it first on the shelves?
Michela
0:57:50
May, I think it was May 2nd, 20, last year, last May. So it's been six months, no, eight months.
Elise
0:58:00
Congratulations on that. Publishing a book, what an accomplishment that is, especially that it reflects everything that you've been working on all this time with Pasta Casalinga. Thank you.
Michela
0:58:15
Thank you. It's definitely a lot of work, but also rewarding. all the people who are working on a project while doing other things. I think they have the excitement at the beginning and they're super pumped. And then at one point, because they have their primary job happening, they have a little bit of anxiety, like, I need to deliver this. Also having a good time. And it's been, to be honest, the last few months before delivering the manuscript, I was like, oh, this is a tiny book, but it's taking so much work.
Michela
0:59:02
Because especially playing seasonality, when it's the narrow season, we need to do the session to shoot all the narrows. And so we had to do many sessions also for photography and tasting and so on. So there was a lot of such, but it's been fun seeing that people have been enjoying the book.
Elise
0:59:41
Yeah, that's great. It's packed. It's dense.
Michela
0:59:43
Thank you.
Elise
0:59:45
Well, I want to kind of maybe close out our conversation by just asking you a little bit about owning a business in the Pike Place Market. I've always had this beef that the Pike Place Market sells lobsters and pineapples when no farmers here in the Northwest, you know, make those things happen. And I just, I want to ask, how is it engaging with that organization and making that work?
Michela
1:00:17
Yeah, no, no, thank you for asking. It's very important. I am incredibly committed to be part of the Pike Place Market organization and I think the Market itself has a kind of a new generation of new tenants and I consider myself a new tenant. I've been there for six years now. So, several of us, they're really committed to understand more, put out more of our input, speak up, go into meetings, and just be part of it more and more. Be more present, let's put it that way.
Michela
1:01:11
The PDA is a very, very fantastic guidelines for the Market itself. And I think it's public and everybody can have access to that. One that I love incredibly is the statement of “meet the producers”. is based on the requirements that people who have their business, they are committed to be on the floor.
Elise
1:01:51
Okay.
Michela
1:01:52
Which is, you know, now you will say, what about Starbucks, obviously? Right.
Chris
1:01:58
They don't send a representative?
Michela
1:02:06
What's that? They do, probably, but on a daily basis. We have to be, I think, between 6% to 70% of our time we need to be on the floor. And that happens or not, but I think it's a beautiful way of saying it, because that means to be part of a community and not to be part of a chain. And I think many, many of us, that's what we do. We are there, we talk with our neighbors, we know everybody's names, at least in the proximity and so on.
Michela
1:02:45
Regarding the pineapple, well, the Pike Place Market has a farmers market, a seasonal farmers Market that is actually happening pretty soon and then displays all of the farmers from mainly east of Washington.
Elise
1:03:06
That begins in May and goes through November or something like that.
Michela
1:03:10
Whatever the season is and if you think all about the flowers, these old farmers and the tulips. The others, it's the market, it's an incredibly touristy place, it's a lot going on, we have so many vendors, we're talking about, I think if I recall, we said, I think it's 220 owned shops and restaurants. So it's a lot in the Market, 220 or so. So plus all the craftspeople, plus all the baskets, plus all the farmers, I mean, it's a lot. There's a concentration of so so many in a very tiny spot. So you have to take things with a little bit of a pinch of salt, right? Yeah.
Elise
1:04:14
No, that's very well said. And then a great reminder about the Market, the seasonal farmers Market that happens beginning I think in May and going through something like November, right?
Michela
1:04:29
I think September, October. September, October. Yeah, but if you think also Pike Place Market, I think we need to also always mention the Pike Place Market Foundation which is an incredible organization is an umbrella under which there is a food bank, the Pike Place Market Childcare and Preschool, the Senior Center, the medical clinic, and all the fundraisers. I don't know if you have ever been to the Sunset Supper in August, which is the biggest fundraiser of the year. So all of us, or pretty much many, many of us, we donate with our presence as a tenant
Michela
1:05:26
through this fantastic party that occurs from 5 p.m. until midnight and donating our food. And then all the money collected, they will go to the foundation, the foundation will distribute to all of those that I just mentioned. And it's something that is very important for me because I have used the sliding scale fee for my oldest daughter when I was a single mom in Pike Place Market. So it's very, very important to remember that when we talk about Pike Place Market as a community, the community it really is. And this is for me as now tenants but also before a user or how can I say guest or more of it. So
Elise
1:06:47
yeah. Thank you so much for bringing up. That's so important and what a good reminder.
Michela
1:06:51
Of course, and you're welcome. Yeah.
Elise
1:06:55
Well, I think, Michela, I think that we are at a point where I feel like my questions have been answered. Chris, how do you feel?
Chris
1:07:05
This conversation has been absolutely incredible, Michela. Thank you so much for your time and kind of giving us a little bit of insight into the Pike Market and also your journey to getting there. Yeah. And there's been a few details about pasta that, you know, what I've always wanted to know but was afraid to ask.
Michela
1:07:26
No, no, don't be afraid. It's all, you know, I'm an open book. But I want to meet you, Chris. Come with me sometime soon.
Elise
1:07:40
The Umami Podcast is produced by TNE Network. Find us anywhere you get podcasts and on Instagram at Umami Seattle. Also, don't forget to check out our website where you can find tons more resources about today's subject. While you're there, consider supporting us with a small monthly donation or one-time gift. And please tell a friend about us. You're listening to While you're there, consider supporting us with a small monthly donation or one-time gift. And please tell a friend about us.
Jared
1:08:05
You're listening to the TNE Network.