Umami Podcast

Elise
0:00:00
You're listening to the Umami podcast, conversations with producers, purveyors, and scholars exploring food choices we make as a culture. I'm Elise Ballard, and I'm here with my friend and co-host, Chris Pfeifle. Thanks for being here. Chris, did you ever see that episode of Portlandia a couple of years ago now? Is it the one with the chicken? The one with the chicken, where they want to know where the chicken was raised and whether it had a nice life, and they go to the farm and they end up joining a cult as a result.
Chris
0:00:45
I've always wondered if it matters if that animal was sad or if it was happy before it was slaughtered, and it's kind of a hard reality when you decide that you're going to be eating meat that that's the end to that animal. Does it make a difference?
Elise
0:01:01
Yeah, it's an easy thing to make fun of, definitely. And it's even easier to make fun of because it's just really hard to face that reality every time you're confronted with a meat decision. But that's really what we're going to talk about today. We're going to have a conversation with Eiko Vokovic of Skagit River Ranch. There's a small but really mighty family farm with grass-fed and grass-finished cattle and pastured hogs and pasture-raised poultry and eggs. And they sell at the Seattle Neighborhood Farmers Markets and some of the co-ops around the Puget Sound.
Elise
0:01:44
And I'm just really excited to talk to her.
Chris
0:01:46
Well, Elise, let's talk to Aiko.
Elise
0:01:50
Well, thanks again. I am just going to, by way of introduction, just tell you that I have been seeing you for at least two decades. I've been coming to the farmer's market, buying your bacon, buying turkeys around the holidays. I mean, I just, and I've even been to your farm a few times to tour. And I've been there, you know, back in the day
Elise
0:02:17
when George gave the tour and I remember specific things he said even about like your pigs and the woods that are kind of at the back of the property, and the revolving chicken coop is another thing that I remember. I think there was some sort of like circle built out of the grass that was designated as like a grounding area for-
Eiko
0:02:41
Oh yeah, the winter sanctuary. Yeah, that's what they call sacrificial field, yeah. And then the rotational grazing. So we just go move them around.
Elise
0:02:53
Okay.
Eiko
0:02:54
That's basically Joel Salatin's method.
Elise
0:02:57
Okay, tell us about Joel Salatin.
Eiko
0:03:00
He is a good guy. Actually, he's been to our farm before, and he's written numerous books. So anybody who is trying to do pasture-raised livestock, he would read all of his books, which we have too. to and I know him personally and in 2019 I think if I did that pilgrimage trip to Joe Salatin's farm I figured this might be the last year I can ask I thought my husband was gonna can't farm anymore so I said I can't do it by myself so I thought maybe I'll be out of farming and so I went over there I'm gonna see what
Eiko
0:03:32
Joel's doing and that's what that trip is the one that convinced Nicole to get into the farming.
Elise
0:03:40
Because she came with you.
Eiko
0:03:41
Yes, she did. She did. And Joel Southerton stood in there and looked at me and said, what are you doing here?
Chris
0:03:47
How old was Nicole during that trip?
Eiko
0:03:51
Oh man, it was 2017. She was just out of college, I think. It was, yeah, she was young. Well, she's still young.
Chris
0:04:07
Yeah, but right at that age where she's making decisions on what she wants to do with her career and one of the questions...
Eiko
0:04:14
Exactly. Farming, you can't force anybody to do. You just have to want to do it.
Chris
0:04:21
That's a question I have for you is how do you facilitate any kind of heritage farming or any kind of lineage in farming and, you know, by not forcing it or, you know, inspiring it? Go ahead.
Eiko
0:04:37
You know, farming was not sexy before, you know what I mean? And it's still not when you really get right down to it. It's a hard work, but you have to kind of love what we do. And Nicole grew up in us farming around, I think she was like 11 years old when she first did the farmer's market with me. And at 12, she did her own market, a Mount Vernon farmer's market on her own. And we'll drop them off in there and then all the ladies just protect her. And I don't think she maybe sold a farm on us, but she was doing it.
0:05:16
You know?
Elise
0:05:17
I remember seeing her there, certainly over the years.
Eiko
0:05:22
So all the customers kind of grew up watching her from high school to college. So she, and then she went to a nutritional school. She was a certified nutritional therapist who came after college and said, so at school they were teaching what we were doing at Skagit River Ranch. I said, well I know all that stuff, you know, and it was really interesting how the, how farming can be so different than conventional farming,
Eiko
0:06:09
what we do is so different. And she
Elise
0:06:15
actually, through Jo Salatin, you know
Eiko
0:06:08
said what became full time instead of going to law and small enforcement career, which I was glad
Elise
0:06:14
she didn't do that. You were. Yeah, I read that in the Rebecca Den article that was written, I guess, about a year ago, huh? Or maybe two. Yeah, maybe. Yeah, it's great person. Yeah, she's wonderful. Yeah, that was such a wonderful article for us to read and give us a sort of an update about what's been happening with you. So on that note, can we go back and just talk about how long you've been around and how you got started and how you ended up where you are now? Those are big questions, I know, but as you say.
Eiko
0:06:49
It was a long time ago. 1998, I think, was the first year we got certified organic, and so we started farming a few years before that. And George had a cow. Actually, it was a wedding present from a friend of ours, a red-colored red angus cow, and that was the beginning of our herd. That was a long time ago. It was almost 25 years ago and that's how
Eiko
0:07:17
we started. We had a conventional farming thing going but then he developed a heart condition and it was based on food. He and his brother researched grass-fed beef cattle ranch about almost 20 years ago and we stayed with it. And this is not a joke. It is grass-fed pasture-raised cows, has so much better nutrition, great for the animals, better for us. And we stuck with that for 20 years, 25 years now, and we still believe that.
Chris
0:08:04
You know I noticed on your website that you say grass finished and I was wondering is is that indicating that prior to that the the livestock is you know fed you know whatever milk or you know they're natural and then you
Eiko
0:08:20
transition over to the to grass finished? Well no it's of course all the cattle are grass fed when they are born. They drink mother's milk and they are on the pastures, they will eat grass. When bad things happen to the cows is when they go, fed horrible grains for the last six months of their lives. That's what they call Kayfo, you probably guys know that. And we don't do that. So we basically finish, they are fed grass all their lives, they finish on grass, on pastures. And of course, in the wintertime, we don't have grass growing,
Eiko
0:09:20
so we basically put out the hay during the summer, and that's what they're fed in the winter.
Chris
0:09:26
Are there any nutritional supplements that that kind of livestock require alongside?
Eiko
0:09:32
Absolutely.
Chris
0:09:33
Yeah.
Eiko
0:09:33
Well, you need to know the soil, first of all, when you are a pasture-raised, you know, livestock, grass-based livestock farmer. You have to know what nutrients are rich in what and what is lacking. Like we have a soil scientist test our soil periodically, probably every three years or so, supplement, like for example boron sometimes is missing, that's limes missing and within organic standards there are certain minerals that we can supplement. Mostly it's sea salt and seaweed. Yeah and they are that's really nutrient rich. We are really lucky because it's Skagit River Basin.
Eiko
0:10:31
We flood, which is not a good idea for flooding, however, flood brings all the minerals from the river to the soil. So it's all these delta, all over the world in delta area on the river basin. They are very fertile farm ground. There's a reason for that because of the minerals. And so we are rich in minerals, and so we have one of the, what they call, sweetest grass in our area, in the Northwest. And they have the best grass around, and we do too. And if you think about the roads on the riverbank, we might lose a couple of acres if we have
Eiko
0:11:07
good grass, but we are losing a lot.
Chris
0:11:10
Give and take.
Eiko
0:11:11
No, yeah, it's a feast of famine, you know?
Chris
0:11:15
Right. Literally, I guess, in your business.
Eiko
0:11:18
Yeah, it is.
Eiko
0:11:19
And part of the problem is that we ran into an elk problem, and we can't touch elk because it belongs to the state, but they do incredible damage to our field. Of course, they would rather be on our grass because we tend to our plants, right? And so they come to our field, eat our grass, and we estimate it about 60 grand a year.
Elise
0:11:39
Oh wow.
Eiko
0:11:40
So we try to make a living, that's not easy, let me tell you. It's really hard for a state to do anything. We probably need an 8 foot maximum security fences to keep those big elk herds out, but we don't have the money to do that. So we basically keep fixing the fences and cursing at those animals.
Eiko
0:12:05
It's really hard.
Chris
0:12:06
Are there other kinds of techniques that you can use? And I'm comparing this to like keeping ducks out of a pool. You would string up reflective tinsel so for some reason they don't like to be near that. Natural remedies? Is there anything that you can sprinkle the ground with to keep the duck out?
Eiko
0:12:25
I tried everything. I had a, I went there, I tried a, what was it, a cougar urine sprays. Oh my goodness, I tried everything. I mean, I have a documentary. I can tell you what it is. No way. If a herd of 200 elks with a big bull comes through, there ain't nothing stopping them.
Elise
0:12:49
Wow.
Elise
0:12:49
God, that's just such a that's such a picture of the variables that you are dealing with every day and that that that are what make it interesting. Yeah. I mean, really, I mean, how could the meat tastes of that complexity, I want to say, and that reminds me of your bacon. I don't mean to reduce it to just adjust the bacon because that's too easy. But boy, it is spectacular. And the other meats of yours that I've cooked, I mean so much beef, it just has a complexity about it. And I feel like that is manifest in these difficult stories
Elise
0:13:32
like the story of the elk and that sort of thing. I had on my list of questions to ask you, what are, what were some of the close calls? What are some of the things that have just been so difficult to overcome in the almost 30 years that you've been doing this?
Eiko
0:13:53
Well, a couple along the way. Let's see, 600 chickens stolen one year? How can anybody steal 600? But it did happen. It was just a chicken that just started to lay so they knew what they were going for. Because they are free range chickens, they are outside. They come in 100 at a time in the bucket and back of the truck because they are defenseless at night.
Eiko
0:14:30
And they, over the five, six days, they disappeared. And that took us about $35,000 to keep that to that laying stage. Oh, there's egg layers. And that almost did us in. They said, well, we can't do eggs now. A customer of ours decided to make a GoFundMe thing on her own. I didn't ask anybody to do that. She just decided to do it.
Eiko
0:15:00
They raised $35,000 in probably 20 days so that I can replace the six. Of course, it takes another six months to do it, but it didn't do us under. And if it was and in second the biggest thing is my husband got very ill. He no longer farms and I thought that was the end of our farm. He has kidney transplant complications and he's in California now with his sisters and they can't really do much and he's got to be staying away from farm for the fear of infections and stuff and I thought that was the end of that and my daughter stepped in and so it's my daughter and I it was a two women team now and over the years you know she learned all that stuff from dad
Eiko
0:15:55
and me and she stepped in she's a probably one of the best livestock operators that I've known. Some areas I think she's better than her father.
Chris
0:16:08
Do you think some of her interest in nutrition was because of Georgia's illness when she was younger?
Eiko
0:16:16
I think so. I think so. And then her nutritional interest is that Georgia kept talking about soil and how that affects the animals and people. It was just that we were inundated with those information, so it was really natural for her to learn about nutrition. She's very good at it. And then watching the cattle, how she handles it. Of course, we have streamlined our operations and she's smaller.
Eiko
0:16:52
We're female operators. So any bullies in the herd, they went. They were called.
Eiko
0:17:00
I'm sorry.
Eiko
0:17:01
Bye-bye-bye.
Eiko
0:17:02
We only kept the gentle ones. So we have gentle animals. We always, there's three principles in our farm. And it was the human treatment of the animals was number one. Two was sustainability of the farm. You can't take, take, take from the land and expect it to bless us. And then third was organic in that order.
Eiko
0:17:27
So human treatment of animals are important. And so when we're treating animals, we have to know how to read them right. And because they can't talk to you. But then why would they just follow us? We don't have a cattle prod. We just do the rotational grazing by calling them. They just come to you because they know the master's voice, and they will come to you.
Eiko
0:17:55
They know they're going to get fed right. is that top 10 inches of grass is the most nutritious in the grass. So you move from field to field to field almost maybe every other day so that they can eat that top 10 inches of grass. They get all the nutrients that way. And they know that. So they'll stand at the door and their ball will say, hey, it's time to move, Ma, you know, kind of.
Elise
0:18:20
And so you don't need a cattle prod. Because they're enticed toward the greener grass, the yummier grass. Yeah, they know we're going to take care of them, yeah you bet. And
Elise
0:18:34
chickens are part of that rotation as well, is that right? Yes, it's, we don't
Eiko
0:18:42
exactly do what the Joel Salatin does where you go from the field of a chicken into the cows, we have a chickens for the field, field for the chickens, and then they rotate within that field. Because of the land restrictions, we don't have that huge acres of the Shenandoah Valley in our backyard, but they are fed grass on our field, on their own field. And they are not ruminant animals, so they get organic grain, but they are outside and
Eiko
0:19:26
truly in the wintertime we give them alfalfa pellets so that they have green grass. And that's important for them. And when, you know, they have a cornucopia institute did the testing of the eggs. You know, they did all around the nation, actually. We got picked to send our eggs to them and stuff. And in order for them to call it, you know, like organic omega-3 eggs, you have to have like 120 gram minimum per egg
Eiko
0:19:53
to get that label.
Eiko
0:19:56
We had over-
Elise
0:19:57
With certification.
Eiko
0:19:58
Yeah, so we don't have a certification, but they tested it. And we had over 300, and we beat Joel Salatin's eggs.
Chris
0:20:07
Oh, really?
Chris
0:20:08
Did you send them a card?
Eiko
0:20:09
That was our day.
Eiko
0:20:10
That was like a, you know, we were really proud of that.
Elise
0:20:11
Yeah, it's a big deal.
Elise
0:20:12
Well, that's great.
Elise
0:20:13
I want to also ask a little bit about, I want to ask this open-ended question, which is what has changed? I mean there are a bunch of ways to go about answering that in terms of you personally, in terms of the ecology of the farm, in terms of the animals. You can answer it in whatever way you see fit, but what has changed compared to when? In the 30 years that you've been farming.
Eiko
0:20:54
25?
Elise
0:20:54
25, sorry.
Eiko
0:20:57
I'm getting older, if that's what you're asking. No question. And I'm turning over the reign to my daughter more and more, which I'm really happy about. She's very good. in the next, we have, she has a six month, 60 month old son and she got another one on the way. So, that's a dynamic for the farm will change.
Eiko
0:21:22
They're boys, but, and she wants to keep the farm, she wants to keep farming. But I think this direction will probably change. I think you'll get smaller in size, more efficient in size, so that it will be manageable for her and her family. And as to what that will be, I don't know. I am taking the sort of backseat now more to be in a supporting role rather than just
Eiko
0:22:02
running it.
Elise
0:22:03
Yeah. How does that feel for you?
0:22:05
Feels great.
Elise
0:22:06
It does? Is it a welcome change?
Eiko
0:22:09
Yeah, I think so. Don't get me wrong. I am pretty headstrong. I mean, I've been doing that all my life, so she will tread lightly on those areas, I think.
Eiko
0:22:21
I am turning over the reins more.
Eiko
0:22:24
And you know, it's like when we were doing cattle handling and stuff, we used to walk the field all the time and things like that. Well, they got this what they call mass pasture map. They are on their phone. They know where the cattles are on their little iPhone. Damn technology. It does it.
Eiko
0:22:48
Oh my goodness. Before it was like a good look. Go look in the field. Hey, right. It's not that. No, mom. It's right here. Oh, that's a huge change in tracking livestock. Especially 300 cattle. Is that what? Oh, yeah. It's a 300 plus and it's a lot. And in a pandemic changed a lot for us too. The pandemic changed a lot for us too. And I thought, I wasn't sure whether we were going to make it through the pandemic, but we turned it over to, I had a really good IT guy and he and I came up with this online order stuff overnight. I don't think I slept for three days and changed the online orders. Now we have about 2,000 email customers that I send out email. Tell them about the farm.
Eiko
0:23:45
People like that. I think people like the pictures of the cows, the newborn cows, babies, whatever. And I tell them what's going on with the farm, what's coming up, chicken slaughters coming this weekend, things like that. And that became like a core sales for us, which in half, George probably don't even know what that's all about, you know? And so, yeah, so things did change.
Eiko
0:24:16
That was one good thing out of pandemic, I think. We are connected with customers more through that way.
Chris
0:24:24
What's your range that you can sell product to throughout the country? I guess Washington State.
Eiko
0:24:30
Washington State.
Chris
0:24:31
That's it. I love it because I'm here.
Eiko
0:24:34
Yeah, you don't want a carbon footprint that long, so that way.
Elise
0:24:38
If you're about not creating a carbon footprint, it makes sense that you wouldn't ship things across the country. No.
Chris
0:24:44
to everything you've said there about scaling and how easy is it to scale a ranch either going up or coming down and is it just related to how much land you have? It is land-bound.
Eiko
0:25:02
Land is a restrictive effort because we are pasture, pastured livestock. So cattle, you need about an acre of land for an animal to finish if you're going to do it right. So there's no way we can scale up to do huge anything, which we don't want to anyway. But scale down is another, it's a five-year process, three to four, at least four-year process for that, because we don't buy any cattle on auctions, anything like that. It's all in the house, line breeding. So we have little babies, the yearlings, and the mother cows, and we have to take care
Eiko
0:25:50
of all of them. So you need a land to take care of all those animals. So you can't really scale them in any way. You know, we used to have 600 when George was running it, so we did scale down quite a bit and that's about the right ratio. She might want to scale down a little bit more, but
Chris
0:26:18
I don't think that much more. Okay. And would that be what would be considered a nefarious upside to more factory farming and maybe more hormones and supplements in that direction where you could get now two cows to an acre because you're influencing them, we'll say.
Eiko
0:26:43
Yeah, well, if you're in the factory farming, I mean, you can confine those animals and start feeding grain and you can do it for 101 acre land. So, I'm not doing that. There's no way. I'll quit farming before I do that. They talk about the MRA vaccines and stuff like that too now. No way am I going to do that either. That's something. Yeah, we just, and we have a customer base that absolutely believe in us and that we,
Eiko
0:27:22
you know, we sell farming, but we sell our trust is what it is. They trust us. That's why we do what we do. And they're not cheap product because we can't afford to get any cheap product.
Elise
0:27:36
We have this thing that comes up in every episode where we have to talk about why good food cannot be cheap food, and I think this is that moment in this conversation. It's just you've I think given us an idea of just some of the things that go into the raising of every single animal and the food that goes, the food supply, the plants that you that you grow as well and I think that's that's the most inspiring thing about this. Is there, is that sustainable? And what I mean is like economically sustainable and I think it is because you've been doing this for 25
Eiko
0:28:16
years. Does it continue to generate? Is it sustainable in terms of longevity? I hope so. I mean, you are not getting rich doing this, but when you think about the industrial farming, you know, there's somebody, I think there's an article, I don't know what it's Joe Sullivan wrote it or not, but if you have a government subsidy on grain to feed those animals, ground beef will cost about $10 a pound that they're selling at 99 cents a dollar, right, a pound. Because it's an artificial government subsidy. We don't get any of that. We don't get any subsidy. So everything that we charge is we pay for it, we grow them, and expenses comes out,
Eiko
0:29:10
our salary comes out, and then we sell them.
Elise
0:29:14
So zero subsidies, there's no sort of support you can apply for as a small-scale farmer like yourself?
Eiko
0:29:22
No, they won't give it to you. That's why, you know, like land, I mean, how expensive is the land in Skagit County even? You know, you're talking about $15,000 an acre. How can young people start farming? You think about it. You need a million bucks to buy land. Nicole is lucky because we have the land. So she's basically taking that over.
Eiko
0:29:48
But unless you have that, I don't think you can.
Chris
0:29:51
There's no more entry point into it.
Eiko
0:29:54
I think farming communities is trying to get the young people, like in Skagit County they have like some startup program for young farmers to do that, but we need more than that because our generation is getting older, the farmers, I think average farmer is like close to 60 years old, you know what I mean? No young ones coming in there, we need more. If you talk about the food security, it's a scary position for us to be in.
Elise
0:30:29
Does the farmers market and the farmers market economy that we're starting to get a little taste of, especially in the sort of coastal cities of this country, offer some area of hope or some area of resilience that hasn't existed before?
Eiko
0:30:48
In the Pacific Northwest, I think it does. We have an incredible farmer's market, which is the envy of the country, really. And so, yeah, there are staunch supporters. Our customers are incredible. I mean, they're family. Yeah. I mean, if you can raise $35,000 because I lost chickens, you think about it. My customers are like, I said their couple, their children, their grandchildren come around
Eiko
0:31:25
and say, I just want you to know they grew up on your meat, da-da-da, that kind of thing. I mean, that's family issues, right? That's why we keep farming. I think that's why Nicole keeps farming. So we're not going anywhere for that reason, I think. It's just the customer. And I think you're right. At Pacific Northwest, this area, farmers market gives you hope for the future, I think.
Chris
0:31:52
Do you have any – that was beautifully stated, by the way. And I'm wondering, do you carry a peace of mind with you, knowing that you have all these skills to raise food and also to feed other people with
Chris
0:32:05
your skills?
Eiko
0:32:06
Yeah, I do. I think it's, I don't know if I can find my own food. I garden, I can. Basically it's sustainable. 50 quarts of veggies and food every year. And so, yeah, I'm set.
Chris
0:32:32
Side note, do you have any fun little projects that you work on just for shits and giggles? Like you said, just maybe a flower garden or certain areas of your land that you have just for your own enjoyment or your family's enjoyment? Other than canning, 250. It's a canning move. I love canning, so that's just my job.
Chris
0:32:49
That's my hobby. And then I play guitar, acoustic guitar. Oh, cool. That's my hobby. All right.
Elise
0:32:54
That's great.
Elise
0:32:55
Oh, that's a great answer to that question. Any specific corner that the acoustics sound better?
Eiko
0:33:08
No, but the cows don't complain when I play this.
Elise
0:33:13
Oh, that's great.
Eiko
0:33:16
They're my audience, so I mean, they don't complain much.
Elise
0:33:19
They are happy cows, I'm sure.
Elise
0:33:22
If they get to hear that music, that's great.
Chris
0:33:24
All right. We've run down quite a bit of my questions, and I've got to say, you've answered them
Chris
0:33:31
with such tenacity and grace.
Elise
0:33:34
Yeah, thank you so much.
Chris
0:33:37
We appreciate a nice, candid conversation, and I'm sure you've answered some of these questions over and over again. I don't necessarily have another one, but I would like to say I went all through your website and there was just some wonderful information on there. And it even stated that you're in nine or so stores where people can go out and get goods other than just the farmer's market and the online orders.
Eiko
0:34:13
Right, right, yeah. I hope they take advantage of that. And you know, that was my master's degree at work, man.
Elise
0:34:22
Okay, is that right? In what way?
Eiko
0:34:26
Well, you have to kind of know how to write intelligently. Some of them are not very intelligent, but anyway.
Elise
0:34:36
To get with the PCCs and the co-ops and the things like that.
Eiko
0:34:41
Right.
Eiko
0:34:42
Yeah.
Eiko
0:34:43
I just, I told my, I think I told Nicole if I knew the running the numbers of financing before I said it started the farming I probably won't even be in farming but it's too late
Elise
0:34:58
because my heart and soul is into it now you know. Well that is obvious it feels you know it's clear every time I encounter you at the farmers market and in this conversation it has very much. I love the idea of getting to talk to you again with Nicole. But before we go, tell us a little bit about your and Nicole's sort of partnership now. You have a relationship as mother and daughter as well. But in terms of your partnership, this is just a new way of sort of oversight, the things that you were talking about, like with PCC.
Eiko
0:35:43
Yeah, she's really... She gave me a coffee cup a couple of years ago and said, if you want my mother, you'll still be my best friend. So we have some incredibly close relationship, which I'm very lucky. She's very gracious and she knows that I'm getting older but she's also very graceful and not stepping on my toes or but gently guiding in the right direction for the future and I think you you would enjoy talking to her.
Eiko
0:36:28
So you should get her on the phone again.
Elise
0:36:32
We should do that, yeah. She's always seemed wise beyond her years. I've encountered her over and over again over the weeks at the farmer's market. And yes, she's always been serious and sort of had this sort of heft about her, like the way that she is. It's really beautiful.
Elise
0:36:51
So I'm excited to talk to her. Yeah, she's an old soul. Cool. Well, so just to recap, so it's usually at the University Farmers Market that I see you. You're also at the Ballard. Where else? That's it. Those are the only two markets we do now. Okay. All right. Well, hopefully we'll get some people to come and see you at both of those places.
Eiko
0:37:15
Yeah, thank you for what you do.
Elise
0:37:17
Oh, yeah, thank you.
Eiko
0:37:18
I appreciate that for the farmers.
Elise
0:37:21
Great. I'll say hi next time I see you at the farmers market.
Eiko
0:37:24
You do that.
Eiko
0:37:25
And then Chris, you go come see me too, because I hear your voice, but I don't see your face.
Chris
0:37:31
Absolutely.
Chris
0:37:32
I'm looking forward to it.
Elise
0:37:34
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Elise
0:38:00
And please tell a friend about us.
Chris
0:38:02
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